Democratic Athens Discussion Questions

September 7: Herodotus
Readings: Book 1, 3.80-88, 5.30-38, 5.49-51, 5.55-96, 5.97-102, 6.94-124, 7.1-58, 7.100-105, 7.138-152, 7.172-239, 8.40-112, 9.76-122

  1. Why does Herodotus include the Solon/Croesus meeting, even though it could not possibly have happened? What does it show about how we should read the Histories? Can it be applied elsewhere in the Histories?
  2. What do the Persian and other ehtnographies reveal about Herodotus and his tolerance of non-Greeks? What do the customs he highlights reveal about the Greeks and their civilization?
  3. How well does the debate over the three forms of government in book 3 reflect these forms in action throughout the Histories? Does Herodotus show a preference for one form over the others?
  4. What role does Herodotus see the gods and fate as playing in history? What role does this leave for human decisions? Is this different in the later books than in Book 1?
  5. What is the attitude of Herodotus towards Xerxes and how is this similar or different from other leaders? Does he portray Xerxes as a simple despot, or is there more to him?
  6. What are Herodotus' feelings about Athens? Are there any negative connotations to Athens's actions during the wars that  Herodotus wants his readers to see?
  7. What does Herodotus see as defining the Greeks as "Greek?" Is there a particular "Greek" identity that transcends individual cities such as Athens? How does Herodotus feel about the political divisions of the Greeks?
  8. Why does Herodotus choose to close the Histories with the story at 9.122? What message does he want his audience to take away from reading the Histories?


September 19: Aeschylus
Readings: Aeschylus, The Oresteia

  1. Are we meant to think that Agamemnon was acting justly when he sacrificed his daughter Iphigeneia in order to set sail against Troy?
  2. Why does Clytaemnestra associate her tempting of Agamemnon to tread on the crimson tapestries with the working out of Justice?
  3. Does the chorus believe that revenge carried out by Orestes will end the cycle of retribution "[t]hree generations strong"—retribution that brings "destruction on destruction"?
  4. Why does Aeschylus include the opening monologue of the Pythia? What does it contribute to the mood of the play?
  5. Why does Athena defer to mortal judges in a case of murder, saying that "murder whets the passions"?
  6. When Athena establishes the court on the Crag of Ares, why does she warn the Athenians to "never banish terror from the gates, not outright"
  7. When the Furies are transformed into the Eumenides, does their essential character change? Why does Athena say to them that "no house can thrive without you?"
  8. How does the concept of "Justice" evolve and change through the plays?
  9. In showing the founding of the Areopagus, is Aeschylus coming out in favor of or against the reforms of Ephialtes?


October 5: Euripides v. Aeschylus
Readings: Euripides, Electra (review Aeschylus, Oresteia, esp. Libation Bearers)

  1. How does Euripides present the myth differently from Aeschylus? Is he directly commenting on the earlier play?
  2. Can we see any traces of Athenian democratic ideals in the Electra? What is the effect of Euripides’s description of the trial on the Areopagus at the end of the play compared with that of Aeschylus?
  3. The chorus has an ecphrasis, or a description of a work of art, at 432ff. How do the various images they describe relate to the play, and how do they affect our understanding of it?
  4. Do any of Euripides’s characters employ rhetoric or arguments similar to the Sophists?
  5. What can we glean about the proper role of women in society as Euripides understands it? Can we see any of this in the Suppliant Women? Does this differ from Aeschylus?
  6. What do these two plays show about the importance of myth in society?
  7. Which version of the Electra myth do you like better, and why?


October 19: Aristophanes
Readings: Aristophanes, Acharnians (review Clouds as well) 

  1. Most plays of Aristophanes feature a "comic hero" such as Dikaiopolis in the Acharnians or Strepsiades in the Clouds. What are the characteristics of this hero? How does he confront his problems? How might he appeal to the Athenian audience?
  2. What civic event is portrayed in the opening scene of the Acharnians? What rules govern the way it is conducted? What prospects are discussed?
  3. How well does truth fare in the assembly? What techniques do various people use to persuade the Assembly, and how effective are they? How does this compare to the debates in Thucydides? Note especially Lamachus.
  4. What constituency does Dicaeopolis claim to represent? Is he able to voice his concerns effectively? Why or why not? What does this say about the functioning of democracy under the stress of war?
  5. What causes are given for the outbreak of war in the Acharnians? How well do these tally with Thucydides?
  6. What does "Acharnians" suggest peace is for - both as Dicaeopolis yearns for it in the first part of the play, and as he enjoys it in the second? How does the play work as parable for the Athenian state?
  7. How does the action of the second half of the "Acharnians" move the audience's sympathies? 
  8. Where does the humor in the play come from? Who is the audience supposed to laugh at, and why?
  9. What are the problems with using these plays for reconstructing 5th century Athens. What kind of historical information can we get from the plays?


October 24: Thucydides 1
Readings: Thucydides 1-2.78, 3.1-68, 3.70-85, 4.1-48, 4.58-65, 4.78-4.88, 4.102-119, 5.1-26

  1. What is the purpose of the so-called "Archaeology" (1.2-19)? What does it reveal about Thucydides' own understanding of the world?
  2. What are the defining characteristics of the Spartans, according to the Corinthians? How well does this describe the Spartans as they are portrayed elsewhere in Books 1-4?
  3. What are the defining characteristics of the Athenians, according to the Corinthians? How well does this describe the Athenians as they are portrayed elsewhere in Books 1-4? Pay especially close attention to the Funeral Oration of Pericles in Book 2.
  4. Why does Thucydides give such a detailed description of the plague? How does Pericles' description of the Athenians' character in the Funeral Oration compare with their actions during the plague?
  5. How does the description of Athens and the Athenian Empire in the Funeral Oration contrast with the description in the final speech of Pericles? Is it possible to reconcile the two? How does Pericles define the idea of “justice?"
  6. How do Cleon and Diodotus define the concepts of "justice" and power in their speeches? How does it compare to the Funeral Oration? Whose definition is acted on and what does it show about the state of democracy at Athens?
  7. Why does Thucydides go into such detail on the local Corcyraean civil war? What does he reveal about human nature? Is he right? Where else in the history have we seen this side of humanity?
  8. How is Thucydides treated by the Athenians for his failure to relieve Amphipolis? Is this justified? What does this treatment reveal about the Athenians? Is Thucydides at all defensive in his narrative?


October 28: Melos and the Trojan Women
Readings: Thucydides 5.84-116, Euripides, Trojan Women

  1. How is justice defined by the Athenians in the Melian Dialogue? What makes the Athenian Empire "just"? How does this relate to previous definitions we have seen from Pericles, Cleon, Diodotus, et al.? 
  2. What arguments and speeches in the Trojan Women are similar to the reasoning of the Sophists?
  3. How does the Trojan Women relate to the arguments we saw in the Melian dialogue? Do you think Euripides is trying to comment on the earlier incident? 
  4. How are the speeches of Helen and Hecabe similar to pairs of speeches we find in Thucydides? How does the knowledge that Menelaus in the end does not kill Helen (in spite of his promise to Hecabe) affect our understanding of those passages?
  5. Do the Trojan women themselves accept the sophistic arguments presented by various figures as valid, or do they reject them?
  6. How are the gods presented at the start of the play, and how do the characters in the play understand their role in human affairs and suffering?
  7. Does the Trojan Women echo any of the themes we saw in Aeschylus or Euripides earlier? What might that show?


November 2: Thucydides 2 - The Sicilian Expedition
Readings: Thucydides 5.84-116, 6, 7

  1. Why does Thucydides juxtapose the Melian Dialogue with the Athenian decision to invade Sicily? How do the Athenians compare to the Melians by the end of 7?
  2. How is Alcibiades' speech at the start of Book 6 designed to play to the characteristics of the Athenians? How does Nicias try to counter this? How does this compare to Pericles' approach?
  3. What is the purpose of the digression on Harmodius and Aristogeiton (VI.53-59) and how does it fit into the larger portrayal of Athens in Thucydides?
  4. What are Thucydides' views on the nature of democracy (think back to earlier passages as well)? Is democracy compatible with empire?
  5. What characteristics normally associated with the Athenians do the Syracusans gradually assume over the courses of Books 6 and 7? What types of characteristics do the Athenians take on?
  6. Much of the responsibility for the disaster of the Sicilian Expedition seems to fall on the shoulders of Nicias, yet Thucydides gives him short eulogy at the end of 7, unique in the history. Why does Thucydides do this, and what is he trying to convey about Nicias' role in the expedition?
  7. It is often felt that the narrative of the Sicilian Expedition does not bear out Thucydides claim at 2.65 that "the mistake was not so much an error of judgement with regard to the opposition to be expected as a failure on the part of those who were at home to give proper support for their forces overseas." Based on your knowledge of Thucydides' understanding of human nature, war, civil strife, etc., can you argue that his judgement at 2.65 is valid? If not, what may have caused Thucydides to reach such a conclusion?


November 18: Plato Discussion 1
Readings: Plato, Republic 1-4

  1. Plato sets the dialogue in a very specific location with specific characters. How do the opening chapters of book 1 help to set up the whole dialogue?
  2. What do you think of Socrates as a character, and how does he compare to his altar-ego in the Clouds?
  3. What is Thrasymachus’s definition of “justice” and where have we seen it before? How does Socrates refute it? Do you find it convincing or is Plato just confusing the issue?
  4. How does the city (Kallipolis) that Plato describes differ from a normal Greek polis? 
  5. What is Plato’s attitude towards poetry and poets? Does he comment fairly on the poetry (i.e., tragedy) we have read? What does this show about his understanding of the gods and religion?
  6. What does the education of the guardians consist of and what does it leave out? How do the guardians differ from the soldiers of most Greek cities
  7. What is the definition of justice that Socrates finally settles on in book 4? How compatible is it with Athenian democracy? Is the Republic ultimately an anti-democratic work?


December 2: Plato Discussion 2
Readings: Plato, Republic 5-10

  1. What role do women have to play in Kallipolis? How does this differ from Greek norms? Should we consider Plato to be a proto-feminist? How else does Plato reject Greek norms in book 5 (and elsewhere)?
  2. How realistic is Plato’s depiction of philosophers? Why are they especially qualified to run the city and how does Plato address the practical questions of putting them in charge?
  3. Based on Kallipolis, what does Plato regard as the biggest problems with the polis? How does he address them?
  4. What is the allegory of the cave supposed to show?
  5. How well does Plato’s discussion of different types of constitutions fit what we have seen in Greek history? What are the main forces behind change in governments? How well does this analysis fit other historical eras you might have studied?
  6. Why is Plato so concerned with imitation (mimesis) in book 10?
  7. What is the point of the Myth of Er, and why does Plato close the Republic with it? What ultimately does Plato want his readers to take away from their encounter with the Republic?
  8. Consider again Xenophon’s Constitution of the Spartans - how does Plato’s Republic and his ideal city relate to it? 
© Charles E. Muntz 2011-2024